I referenced DDO, actually. I'm not sure how LOTRO does it. I never did get to group content in LOTRO....but yeah, I really don't like random loot tables. I'm not a fan of gambling in general, and loot tables are just a source of frustration and drama. Where the idea came from, I'm not sure either, but it's time to leave it in the past.
Well crap, and I teased Syl about the Rift/WoW confusion in her post. XD Thanks, I'll fix it.
Just wanted to say: LOTRO is old fashioned in this regard. Need/greed/pass and random loot tables, so there's always a chance something drops that nobody can use and that's "bound on acquire". :(
Yeah, that has been a problem in WoW as I recall. Another reason I think token systems work nicely. There's no really perfect answer, I guess.
The MMO Tesh referred to was Dungeons&Dragons online though :) - I agree it sounds like a great system. I wonder why not more MMOs go the way of crafting resources for loot; in many ways this would make more sense, not just thematically (it's kinda most realistic) but everyone could make use the resources and then use different professions to craft different gear for himself. this could be lots of fun imo and give crafting and trade so much meaning.
Karma caught up with me and my snark. O.oYour idea of crafting- mats for loot is a good one. And the mats could still be divided fairly evenly.
I absolutely loathe "get tokens and buy off a vendor" systems. I first encountered the system in Darkness Falls back in DAOC circa 2002 and a more depressing, miserable, puritan system I could scarcely have imagined. Go down this hole, get on with your murderous work, earn your pay then spend it in the company shop on gear that helps do your that same work better next time.Where's the adventure in that? Or the fun? DKP systems are almost as bad although at least there you do get to see stuff drop. And that is important, to me at least. It is about treasure hunting, not about having a job. It's about chance and luck and poking your nose in where it shouldn't go. It's all about Lucky Bags.What really puzzles me about loot rolling is why people care so much in the first place. I almost always roll "Greed" because the concept of "needing" something in a video game just seems weird. I've always espoused "Can And Will Use", which seems to me to be a much more appropriate description. I'd roll CAWU on items that I'd never roll Need on. One of the (many) reasons I never really got into raiding was an experience I had in DAOC. My guild was raiding somewhere (the old-style raid where you piled through a dungeon killing everything in your way). People were leaving corpses unlooted which infuriates me at any time so I started opening them up. Not taking anything - I wasn't interested in having what might be there - I rarely am. I just have to know what they've got. I type that over and over when grouping, as soon as we kill anything that might have loot "What's he got??!!" Anyway, the inevitable happened and someone told me not to be greedy (even though I wasn't taking anything at all). A huge row ensued and I left the guild on the spot. Pretty much killed any interest I had in raiding after that. If you can't open the Lucky Bags, what's the point of even being there? When I did more raiding later and had to sit around at the end waiting for whoever had ML'd to announce everything for bids I just about lost the will to live. I used to raid, then say goodbye and log out before the loot was divided up. One way to deal with it would be to allow everyone to loot the mob and get the same No Trade item. I'm a big fan of No Trade. There should be much more of it. That way, no arguments about who gets what. Everyone gets it. Can't use, just destroy it. Alternatively, we could all just deal with getting nothing more often than not. Nothing that is apart from the fun of playing the game, which is presumably why we are there in the first place.
That "work" system is the only way I see any fairness in a game where the devs are controlling not only what drops but when it drops, etc., and also what is required to progress to the next stage. I agree that raiding is horrid. If there were a way to go completely through a dungeon once, just for the "story," and never go back, I would take that choice every time. To require 8-40 people to go through a dungeon and only reward maybe 4 of them (often less) is a crappy game mechanic. But then, I also think gear-based progression is crappy, too.I had a friend who raided MC and Naxx during Vanilla WoW, and he said it ended up feeling like a second job that he didn't get paid for. I've said it before, if I am going to be going through the exact content, stuck with the exact same clown (whather my guildmates or not) over and over, we might as well be playing Madden, or some other sports game.
Common sense should prevail in matters such as this, but it almost never does in PuGs. This is why I try not to involve myself in completely random groups if I can help it. It's much easier when everyone is on the same page, be that with dkp or any other kind of loot system. Even then, I will still say things like "mind if I roll need on that?" in a guild group, so everyone knows my intentions. Loot has been the cause of too much drama.
Loot does casue a lot of drama. One such incident in a PUG Raid caused me to forswear doing any PUG raiding again. The Master Looter accidentally gave a hunter a spellcaster trinket, which he refused to give back, and was very immature about it. I told the person who'd invited me, "sorry, I don't tolerate that" and dropped group.
If the question is "what system should we use" then the venture has already failed. Every group, every moment of joining, every boss, every contribution - all must be weighed by those present in the group and none other. A system of any sort that tries to create a generic overlay is doomed to failure.
I have basically zero experience with any LFG tool besides WoW's because my experiences in that game. They do lock the loot distribution to "Need before Greed" and in every group I can remember, there was no drama over loot. There was plenty of drama over other things, but not who deserved the loot.