Gear Treadmills: I've Lost that Lovin' Feeling

We're talking about normal and heroic raiding in WoW!
Balkoth's Word, "Why Have Gear?"

At last I understand your consternation, Balkoth. You think we're talking about your preferred playstyle. You're one of those players that seems to think that "the game starts at end-game." However, since I don't play WoW, and I don't think Jeromai does either, we were not discussing WoW raiding. When we did, it was mainly to highlight why we don't participate in that style of play. My original post—as did Stubborn's, in my view—had more to do with guild drama, and some root causes of it, than the merits of WoW-style raid-gear treadmills.

[EDIT: OK, I missed somehow that you did say it's about killin' the bosses.] You seem to derive a lot of your fun from exciting loot drops. I don't. I find them to be a form of game design that keeps people playing, but doesn't engage them. I prefer content that challenges me as a player as opposed to my character as "properly geared." I'm not saying that gear can't play a part, but that it seems to be the focus of WoW raiding (this from my personal experience).

Viewing your "ideal" gearset as a goalpost is a problem because it ultimately doesn't matter that you complete the set in the first place!
~Balkoth

Now I see that it is not just Blizzard who keeps moving the goalposts. You're the one who set the gearset goalpost in your original example, Balkoth. I don't have an ideal gearset, because I am not on the raid treadmill. Nothing you have said about tiers being temporary at best has induced me or players like me to run through that Skinner box again. You emphasize what you like that Stubborn says about obsolescence and ignore his two statements that bracket it.

I don't like it, even though I think it’s accurate. . . What bothers me is that there’s an enormous amount of obsolete content that must come to years of man (and woman) power just sitting collecting dust.
~Stubborn, "Skinner and Obsolescence"

It bothered me (and others I have spoken with) that so much time and effort was spent on TBC raid content that so few people saw because it was hidden behind gear gates and other barriers. Blizzard has acted to change that in subsequent ex-pacs with Flex and LFR, and that is a great thing. But my time with WoW is long past at this point.

I also don't understand why you're using the phrase "hard-charging loot hounds" — people want to kill the fights faster because they're in competition. . .
~Balkoth

Your reasons for being a loot hound don't change the fact that you are one. I'm not in competition with other players or with other guilds. That sense of competition is, in fact, the cause of most drama I have seen and experienced playing WoW.

The raid leader's yelling at idiots to get out of the Fire. Someone doesn't appreciate having to "carry" other players not pulling their weight. Someone misses out on a RNG loot drop. Someone feels they deserve something because of "all the time" they put into the raid. Someone is being left out because they're not part of the In Crowd. I want no part of that.

I went to the effort to do all the holiday achievements and get my violet protodrake, at a time when my raid leader was poo-pooing them because they weren't the end-game raiding drakes. Guess what, I got my drake. He never did in the time that I associated with him. I am sorry, but in terms of achievements, I'd rather work slow and steady than pray for just the right combination of numbers in a loot lottery.

I've said it before, but you seem not to be listening: Extrinsic rewards and virtual slot machines are not why I go through a given bit of content. I may sound condescending. I'm not trying to be. If you enjoy end-game raiding in WoW, that is wonderful. I did for a while, but then I realized I didn't, so I stopped.  Eventually, I stopped playing WoW altogether.

When a game company places an item in an event, like a mount… that is usable every day… and makes it a super rare random drop… I want to stab them.
~Belghast the Aggronaut, "Halloween 2013"

If the gameplay itself is not engaging me, I stop playing. Hence why World of Warcraft and end-game raiding are no longer on my docket. Blizzard gutted the leveling game because they listened to people who thought reaching the end of the journey was the point. I guess they were right, because millions of people still play. But I don't, because it is no longer fun for me.